High School Football

Like how you point out the Burton and Appy games. Umm look over the records a bit. And read the following quote from the previous post. It says a lot of what i said. Burton played a team this year that was very similiar to past Appy teams. Run and pound away, be physical, keep it close win it when it counts.
I love how you seem to like to point to some things and esp. anything me or a few others seem to say. With GC and Coeburn gone from the district this year. Well i guess it puts things almost back to where they were pre GC coming home.
Only thing is those who whined because GC come back, well they can now quit whining. Should make many in the LPD happy. They got to beat a GC team that was down this past year. Wonder how many kept them on their schedules?

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah..that's true. When you play a finesse game you can beat teams that don't have athletes as fast or skilled as you. But, teams upstate have always been notorious for a slew of excellent athletes. Those teams can be beat by a good ground game and brutal hits. The teams from this region have not historically matched up athlete for athlete with the teams upstate. But there is a reason that this region has won more state championships than any other...it is PHYSICAL play. Wanna wonder why Giles beat PV...they were more PHYSICAL. Wanna know why region d hasn't won a state championship since GC in 2003...Cuz we're not PHYSICAL enough to beat the teams upstate with superior finesse...It's tested and it's proven...if you want to be a state champion, you have to physically whip the other team...after all..how many finesse state champions from region d can you name? I can't name one, and i've been around a long time.


[/ QUOTE ]

[hoard]

There are a number of reasons that Region A and B schools have been more successful lately and it doesn't have as much to do with the philosophy change by Region D schools.

The first reason is the switching of the state championship games to turf fields. This gives the quicker teams a huge advantage. Look at how many times pre-1999 the finals were on sloppy fields. This almost always resulted in an advantage for SWVa teams.

The second is the advent of spread offenses. You rarely saw the read option offenses (from the 4-wide shotgun at least) in VA high school football 15, or even 10 years ago. The Region A/B teams have almost always had a speed advantage over Region D teams. These offenses give teams like William Campbell, Manassas Park, Surry Co, etc. a better opportunity to use it by spreading out the defense and giving their athletes more one-on-one situations.

Someone mentioned Lunenburg Central's teams from the 80s and early 90s having similar or better athletes, but at the same time they mostly ran the straight-T with two tight ends.

The other reason, IMO, is the enrollment trends. SWVa schools keep getting smaller while the Region B schools keep getting bigger. It makes me sick when fans of Shenandoah Valley schools talk about how "superior" their football is to SWVa. While Valley schools have improved, their success can mostly be attributed to the divisional setup that keeps enabling them to end up in Division 1 (and also Division 3 in AA) even though their enrollments are in the upper half of the state in AA and A. Riverheads had a larger enrollment than Tazewell, Graham and Grundy for crying out loud.

[sup-rbeast]

I played against both of those Central teams, and on occasion they would put 2 backs in the backfield. They were a throwing team. If you're gonna try to tell me they ran mostly T with double tights i'm gonna say you are wrong. As far as the surface..I think grass is a better surface but what a team plays on should not matter. I know turf has better footing etc..but the better team will still win. as for the numbers in the schools, how many teams do you think Appy ever beat that had less numbers than them? People try to make every excuse in the world for region d's fall off. What it boils down to is (1) a change in philosophy from power football to finesse and (2) the lack of willingness of EVERY athlete on EVERY team to work as hard in the offseason as the season itself. Right there are 2 reasons...we don't need any more excuses. The proof is in the pudding..Using a traditional power game PV won 8 Championships, Appy won 6 or so, Clintwood won 2 or 3, Gate City won 3, Kelly won 1, and Burton won 1. Since the switch from this philosophy, the LPD is 0-4. So, there is all the proof ya need.

[imported_Counts]

Both arguments have merit IMHO Had PV been a more physical team they had a better shot at beating Mannasses Park HOWEVER they may have had a tougher time with GC who could not keep up with the PV spread but may have been able to out smash mouth PV......

But you can not overlook the fact that Region B school sizes are growing by leaps and bounds (Heck several Div 1 schools were AA a coupple of years back) and the cold hard facts are that if you have more kids to choose from all things being equil the larger school will field the more talented team most years

[sup-rbeast]

The way I see it, if you're not good enough to win your district you should feel lucky to play for a state championship. Also, the way I see it, if you have to gimmick your way to a state title, you have no business there because you will be exposed in the end. And like i've said before, when region d was bringin home crowns no one whined about the other schools being larger...etc etc. Those are nothing but excuses for the truth. The truth is we in this region became arrogant and complacent as if winning a state championship is a birth right or somethin. Well, the news is in...It's not a birth right. It is the result of hard work and physical play. And until someone in this region goes up the road and wins one with somethin other than PHYSICAL football, there is no proof to discount the fact that the change in philosophy is a major reason that this region has failed 4 out of 4 times in the past 2-3 years. And as far as larger schools having the most talent, that has always been the case. The trump to that was the smaller schools had the most determination and HEART.

[Ironlung]

AMEN. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beer1.gif[/img]

[imported_Counts]

I agree with alot of what you are saying BUT

[ QUOTE ]
when region d was bringin home crowns no one whined about the other schools being larger

[/ QUOTE ]

Region B schools were MUCH smaller 10 years ago than they currently are (And they are getting bigger ALL the time)

A team MUST play with the talent they Have I LOVE smash mouth football but it is not the answer by itself heck look at Appys last state apperance Appy was a very good team and played "Smash Mouth ball" but WC (who had been AA just a year or 2 before) beat them by 70 points with a spread/speed game.

That being said Norton had its shot at bringing home a state title this year and IMHO there failure to do so was due more to missed opertunitys and a questionable call than lack of a power game

[sup-rbeast]

You can't put but 11 on the field. I went to the Burton Game...and yes, power was a big part of their loss. They were blown off the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. That had a whole lot to do with their failure to capitalize when it mattered. And when Riverhead ran right at 'em they punished them and had their way. To further illustrate my point, Look at Twin Springs for example. In 2001-2002 they were throwin the ball all over the place and were 1-19 in 2 seasons. A year later the philosophy was changed to POWER football and over the next 2 seasons they were 14-10 with 2 region d finals appearances. Now I know that doesn't sound like much, but it shows the difference the philosophy makes. If that can be done there and it make that big of a difference, it more than validates the point. A good power run game takes away the legs and speed of a fast finesse team if you are patient enough to control the ball. WC blew Appy's line out of the water. I don't care what ya run, if ya don't win at the line of scrimmage you're not going to win anyways.

[imported_Counts]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't put but 11 on the field

[/ QUOTE ]

BUT when you can choose your 11 from 300 boys insted of 75 you stand a MUCH better chance of filding a team without the kid that you are tring to hide on the field.

i.e. To make things simple lets look at 3 schools (A,B and C)
School A has 200 Students School B has 600 and C 2000

Lets assume that only boys will play football and that 50% of the schools population are male

A=100, B=300, C=1000

Next lets assume that only 50% of the kids want to(and can) play football

A= 50, B =150, C=500

Now lets assume that 50% of the kids left have enough talent not to trip over there on feet

A=25, B=75, C=250

From this number lets assume that 10% are top level materal

A=3 (Rounding up), B=8(Rounding up), C=25

Last lets assume that 10% are Div1 Talent(That is a bit high IMHO but the math is easyer LOL)

A=0.3 (Or 1 player every 3 years)
B=0.8 (1 Player most years but not all the time)
C=2.5 (2 Players every year and 3 every other year)


That is my argument that school size DOES matter not becouse the larger school will always be better than the small school but given the larger pool to draw from the larger school will do better than the small school

That being said A ball control phycical ground game can keep you in games that you can win in the 4th

[sup-rbeast]

My point exactly...You win in the 4th or at least have a chance if you play hard nosed football. The other team is worn down and you have a chance. As far as numbers go..still your argument is good in theory but not really relevant. Think of how Lee has been dominated by schools much smaller than them. Namely PV and GC...and Appy has their fair share of wins there too. Strasburg..Jonesville's opponent in 86 and one of Appy's many conquests, Surry Co., Middlesex, and the list goes on and on...These schools were much bigger than our Division 1 schools in the 80's. But the difference came in the players that represented this region and the philosophy which was embraced and shared by almost 100% of the teams from this region. Like I said, any argument about surfaces, team sizes, etc. are only excuses. That has been proven by over 2 decades of LPD domination at the state level. If we as a whole ever go back to it the domination will begin all over again regardless of the playing surface, the ability of the other team, or the numbers of the other school. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog. And if a dog with alot of fight has the heart and determination and will he will prevail...given he is put in an system that best fits HIS ability to fight.